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  • No Video - DepoView - NVidia 64-Bit Video Driver issue

    No Video - DepoView - NVidia 64-Bit Video Driver issue


    While using DepoView, users may notice that no video is ever displayed in the Transcript Manager Media Playback window. Video may also never show in the Video Display Window. This happens regardless of the video used. This may happen with MPEG-1, MPEG-2, MPEG-4 (MP4), AVI, WMV, etc. This may also affect TimeCoder Pro 6 Video Display Window.

    If your workflow includes TrialDirector 6, this does not currently affect Presentation Preview or Presentation Mode. This issue also does not affect any audio tied to the video. Audio will play if the users audio drivers / codecs have no issues.

    This issue is directly tied to NVidia's decision to force 64-bit Video Drivers only for all Game Ready NVidia Video Cards as of April 2018. If users have a computer system with Windows 7, Windows 8 / 8.1 or Windows 10 - and the computers Video Card falls within the range that NVidia specified, the Video Card may silently update in the background without the user ever knowing it. Again, this was a decision made by NVidia. Ipro and Microsoft still support 32-bit codecs and drivers. NVidia does not.

    Resolution:
    Be advised, this was a decision announced by NVidia last year and affects the entire software community - not just Ipro software. This also affects Microsoft 32-bit software as NVidia is forcing 64-bit codecs to be used within older software that was never built to accommodate 64-bit codecs.

    Please note that Ipro Technical Support cannot help you perform any of these actions.

    -------Rolling back to a previous NVidia driver is one solution. Found in Windows Device Manager - If a user's system has auto-updated to a NVidia driver that's dated past April 2018, there should be an option (within Microsoft Windows Device Manager) to roll back the driver. The user would need to pull up the properties of their Display Adapter > go to the Driver tab and check to see if a Roll Back Driver button is accessible. If so (and the driver rolls back to before April 2018) this may resolve the issue after a roll-back and reboot. CAUTION: Ensure all your personal data on the computer is backed up before performing any driver roll-back. Ipro is not responsible for any client data or decision to roll-back. Not all drivers are eligible for roll-back to before April 2018 (NVidia ensured this) so this only applies to some computer systems.

    -------Another solution is to use a computer that doesn't have an NVidia Graphics Card to begin with. Other computers may have an AMD / ATI Video card. These hardware configurations are not affected by NVidia's decision to force 64-bit codecs because they are configured with completely different hardware. Other users may choose to use an Intel HD Video card but be advised that these video cards typically won't meet hardware specifications for the courtroom - especially if you move from DepoView to TrialDirector 6. Video should still be available on Intel HD Video cards though... Ipro wouldn't recommend using Intel HD configurations in the courtroom as they count for low-end specs.

    -------A third option, using a 32-bit version of Windows 7, 8, or 10 ensures that your computer already uses a Video Card that can accommodate 32-bit drivers. This would only be a good solution for computers that have been manufactured in 2016 / 2017. Any computers manufactured beyond 2017 may not have the ability to use 32-bit drivers so keep this in mind. This is a suitable solution for NVidia and ATI/AMD drivers. Intel HD drivers would also apply but we'll re-iterate that they don't meet spec. for the courtroom.

    -------Finally, if your DepoView media ends up being used in TrialDirector 6, be advised that this only affects the Transcript Manager playback window and the Media Tab window. If the video has audio associated with it, users can cut the video like they would normally without even using the video stream. (as some workflows are performed without the video anyways). Cutting the video using this method should have no impact on how it's displayed in TrialDirector's Presentation. Video should work fine in Presentation as this is not currently affected by NVidia's decision.

    -------NVidia has removed some pre-April 2018 drivers from their database search, meaning, that users can't get them direct from NVidia anymore for some video card chip-sets. We've heard of users applying older NVidia drivers from 3rd-party websites. While this is a solution, it's not something that Ipro can recommend as the drivers weren't obtained from the manufacturer. Users would do this at their own risk.

    NVidia made a statement about this change in April of 2018. See below for reference:

    https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answ...rating-systems

    Please contact Ipro support if you have any further questions about this topic.


    Example of a NVidia 64-Bit Driver that might affect DepoView when displaying video. Example of DepoView with only the audio stream available.  Video may not be available if an NVidia 64-bit driver is applied.
    Last edited by Chris Friedel; 03-04-2019, 10:36 AM.
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  • #2
    For the first time in 18 years, I had a client call me frantically during trial saying they could not see the video in their DepoView deposition. They needed to make clips fast.

    I was dumbfounded about the issue. I am just seeing this for the first time - wish I had seen it a month ago. I felt helpless.

    As both a hotseat operator AND a videographer, it would seem that Ipro could upgrade TimeCoder Pro so that this doesn't happen anymore. As an end user, who creates more end users, I think we are all waiting for some improvement. This problem can only get worse going forward. I am not able to forecast who has an Nvidia problematic Windows 10 machine and who doesn't when I send out video after a deposition.

    DepoView needs to be able to take advantage of the 64 bit platform where these issues do not happen anymore.

    Otherwise, we are all going to have to go to other synching programs and/or companies and TImeCoder Pro as it exists will be rendered into a questionable product not worthy of professional standards. We all have a lot riding on this.

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    • #3
      What's confusing to me is that this Nvidia Warning is on both the TrialDirector 6.8 forum and DepoView Forum.

      I just changed to a WIN 10 machine with an Nvidia card (newest driver is May 2018, so it is a roblem card). I am having the no picture Nvidia problem in Transcript Manager in TD 6.8 but not in DepoView 6.8. How do I explain this to clients?

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      • #4
        Thanks for your valuable feedback. DepoView and TimeCoder would require a re-write from scratch to operate within a 64-bit environment. It isn't something we can just patch. Fortunately - Ipro is currently working on a 64-bit version of DepoView and a 64-bit version of TimeCoder that will address your concerns. The future product(s) may or may not be named the same. Unfortunately, we do not have a release date to provide at this time.

        For your other questions -


        DepoView needs to be able to take advantage of the 64 bit platform where these issues do not happen anymore.

        The DepoView and TimeCoder products in their current form utilize components that leverage availability of 32-bit filters, 32-bit drivers and 32-bit architecture. NVidia eliminated all of this availability as we stated in the initial post. A search across the web indicates that this behavior is not limited to just Ipro software. It's widespread. NVidia moved to "Game Ready" drivers and "Creator Ready" drivers that lock-out 32-bit command rendering so while you may have audio, the video may never display or render if its dependencies hinge on a 32-bit engine. Some users can get around this by downgrading to Win7 because that was designed with 32-bit and 64-bit instructions but as a whole, Microsoft is moving away from support for 32-bit instructions. NVidia has already moved away from it. NVidia has baked this into their most recent hardware so that users cannot utilize any driver outside of the Game Ready or Creator Ready drivers. The replacement versions of DepoView and TimeCoder will be 64-bit compatible so these will honestly depend on MP4, H.264 compliance. We would suggest modifying your workflow - output to MP4 in the future. MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are quickly being phased out.


        I just changed to a WIN 10 machine with an Nvidia card (newest driver is May 2018, so it is a problem card). I am having the no picture Nvidia problem in Transcript Manager in TD 6.8 but not in DepoView 6.8. How do I explain this to clients?


        We may have stated this on other posts but wanted to re-iterate that DepoView and TimeCoder are not intended for Presentation usage in the courtroom. If users decide to utilize these tools directly in the courtroom - they were never intended for that usage and Ipro will not support that type of usage. DepoView is for Review and TimeCoder is for Review prep.

        There's many more moving parts within TrialDirector 6 back-end versus DepoView back-end. As a presentation product, TrialDirector needs to manage translation between Transcript Manager and Presentation while DepoView only needs to render out to a simple video container and clip-editing / export engine. Even before any NVidia related issues, some users would turn off the Transcript Manger video display window and cut their clips via audio points only. While the video is great to have, clip cuts and edits only pay attention to audio anyways. Understandably, this isn't the most elegant setup for every user. TrialDirector 360 is built on 64-bit architecture and can take advantage of newer 64-bit filters so translation from the Transcripts Tab in TrialDirector 360 to the PRESENT module in TrialDirector 360 should be normal. Audio and video would be normal. For TrialDirector 6, it depends on the environment. If your users have unfortunately updated their environment to brand new hardware with the 64-bit NVidia drivers forced then they can use the "audio only" clip cut workflow above or your client may be better served by using TrialDirector 360.


        Ipro still supports DepoView so if your client is using DepoView within a Windows OS such as Windows 7, 8 or 10 - Ipro can support that. (This excludes Parallels for Apple OS'es) We can assist your client directly and explain this further if you'd like. Thanks again for the feedback.
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        • #5
          The replacement versions of DepoView and TimeCoder will be 64-bit compatible so these will honestly depend on MP4, H.264 compliance. We would suggest modifying your workflow - output to MP4 in the future. MPEG-1 and MPEG-2 are quickly being phased out.[

          That is good to hear that 64-bit compatible versions are in the works. In my Legal Videographer role, I have produced nothing but TD-compliant MP4 files for over 5 years now. Unfortunately, as a Trial Presentation operator, I am not always using my own video -- we my get synched video from anyone across the U.S. (usually last minute), who may not have any idea what the presentation side is like or even know how to use TD. If I have the time and resources, I will convert their MPEG1/2 to MP4 and synch.



          Even before any NVidia related issues, some users would turn off the Transcript Manger video display window and cut their clips via audio points only. While the video is great to have, clip cuts and edits only pay attention to audio anyways. Understandably, this isn't the most elegant setup for every user... For TrialDirector 6, it depends on the environment. If your users have unfortunately updated their environment to brand new hardware with the 64-bit NVidia drivers forced then they can use the "audio only" clip cut workflow above or your client may be better served by using TrialDirector 360.

          I understand what you are saying. But, I have literally a half dozen clients who have work sessions with us in a conference room, watching us edit in Transcript Manager on a projector. They are looking for smirks, awkwardness & emotion during clips as well -- so they do not discount a lack of video at all. It is important to them to be able to see the witness as it is being edited -- the non-verbal communication may determine if that segment is in or out of the final cut.


          Ipro still supports DepoView so if your client is using DepoView within a Windows OS such as Windows 7, 8 or 10 - Ipro can support that. (This excludes Parallels for Apple OS'es) We can assist your client directly and explain this further if you'd like. Thanks again for the feedback.

          I should have referred them to you when that happened. I am now aware of the Nvida 64-bit issue.

          ---------------------------------------------------------------------------

          It sounds like it may be time to move on to TD 360. But, I am wondering if I could keep 6.8 running simultaneously as TD 360 on the same machine for a bit while I transition, like I did when I moved from TD 5 & 6. There is always a learning curve and long-time trial techs do not feel comfortable (nor do their clients) using one version in this week's trial and a new version in next week's trial.

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          • #6
            Thanks again for the valuable feedback. Wanted to follow up.

            Agreed, not every user is on the same page so you have to work with whatever you receive. Microsoft and other vendors have nudged our respective industries towards MP4 a little quicker than we wanted so we have to sometimes pivot without notice. Audio only clip cutting is probably more aimed at a user just working the clip cuts they were assigned and then (if everything is working in Presentation) said user can present the clips in Presentation to the Attorneys and other stakeholders to make a decision. Video should show in Presentation to measure deponents facial expressions. Not ideal in every scenario but ok in a pinch.

            DepoView clients don't require a license. You could initially troubleshoot with your client if you want (to eliminate any obvious issues) but we can dig a little deeper in into the product. Send them our way if it takes longer than 15 minutes is the general rule. If your client's have MP4 as you've been using then it makes the process easier.

            TD360 back-end is SQL driven versus TrialDirector 6 using legacy MSAccess architecture. Since TD6.8 is what you are familiar with, you could have both products on your system simultaneously. The recommendation would be to finish whatever cases you have in TD 6.8 as there's no way to migrate from TD 6.8 to TD360 (You'd have to start from scratch). Some users have run their current cases in tandem on TD6.8 and TD360, meaning, Computer 1 has TD6.8 and serves as the Primary System going to the courtroom. Computer 2 also goes to the courtroom but it's the back-up computer. Users may install TD6.8 and TD360 on Computer 2 so they can get a feel on learning and workflow changes in TD360 as it relates to TD6.8. Fully agree on learning curve. Until you feel confident in the product, stick with TD6.8 to take care of business then pick a lighter case to test drive TD360 until it can shoulder your workflow.
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